Sara Stumpf 0:00

The sci-fi I pick, and maybe Clay will talk about something different, but like the sci-fi I pick for this is all like short novel novellas, very fast-paced. That's what I like about sci-fi. I like where there's like a strong plot, and yes, there is a lot of world, and you're gonna discover that world, but please God, nobody is writing entire like 30-page chapters that just explain how like your mother's cousin's sister's former roommate [lo-fi music plays] like conquered the seven kingdoms 800 years ago, and now her like, I don't know, like brother's third cousin's former housemate is the queen of the something. I don't care.

Lara Griffin 0:44

For everyone who's ever said, I need a new book to read, this episode is for you. Welcome back to the Rockford Public Library Podcast, where curiosity is encouraged, caffeine is essential, and today, well, today we're getting a little nerdy in the best possible way. We are going to step into three unique literary worlds.

Lara Griffin 1:07

Biographies for when you want a real-life drama that's better than Netflix, mysteries for those of us who love pretending we could absolutely solve a crime from the comfort of a sofa, and sci-fi for everyone who's ever wished they could time travel, teleport, or at least own a robot that makes snacks.

Lara Griffin 1:28

The RPL staff are recommending books that made them laugh, think, gasp, or immediately recommend them to five other people. Grab your headphones and let's jump into some staff book recommendations that might just become your next obsession. Let's get started. We are going to kick it off with biographies, and I have Doug Janicke, author, poet, and archivist for the Rockford Public Library. And so, Doug, for those of us who don't know what an archivist or what your role is here at the Rockford Public Library, would you share more?

Doug Janicke 2:05

Yeah, so when I started here at the library, they wanted me to curate, organize all of the local history items. And that's what I did for the first four years.

Lara Griffin 2:20

Wow.

Doug Janicke 2:21

Yeah, that's how much there was. So up in the archive room, in our nice climate-controlled room, there's 12 collections. It's about 150 boxes right now, and more than 120 original catalog records. It's just thousands of items.

Lara Griffin 2:41

Wow, okay. And so what do you can are you continuing to archive?

Doug Janicke 2:48

Yes, I was very naive when I started and thought, what happens when I'm done? Yeah. That's it's not, it's never done. So there's donations all the time, and if we're going to accept them, it's a matter of where do I place them, which collection do they fit best in. And then there's things we find all the time that still are not in the collection. There's just black holes.

Lara Griffin 3:17

Yeah.

Doug Janicke 3:18

Then it happens. So you know, between new things and correcting things, it's never ending.

Lara Griffin 3:26

And so with that, I know you just had an essay come out for the Rockford Anthology. I just wanted to highlight that. And can you share about what your essay is on?

Doug Janicke 3:41

Yes, so Rachel Leon wanted to do something about music. I'm a I'm a musician too. And so she really wanted a piece about the on the waterfront festival. And nobody had done one yet. And I said, well, I went almost every year of its nearly 30-year run, and I played in five different bands on two different stages over the course of about 15 of those years. So I said, yeah, I I have some opinions, I have some observations, and that's what I wrote about.

Lara Griffin 4:19

Okay. Awesome.

Doug Janicke 4:20

Yeah, it was fun.

Lara Griffin 4:21

Yeah, and so to me that's a great link to biographies, because biographies give us a lot of history and bring us to where a person is today. So what biography what's the first book that you have to recommend?

Doug Janicke 4:37

I read Tim Curry's memoir, Vagabond.

Lara Griffin 4:41

Okay.

Doug Janicke 4:42

So I just I love Tim Curry. I think he's so eclectic, and he named it Vagabond because that's how he views his life. He just goes from one place to another. He loves to not be anchored down. It's not so much traveling, it's just that he's that free spirit.

Lara Griffin 5:03

Yeah. And what would we know Tim Curry from?

Doug Janicke 5:06

So it's probably most iconic role is a very serious one, he says sarcastically. He was Dr. Frank and Furter from the Rocky Horror Picture Show, which first was just a stage show. It was just the Rocky Horror Show. And then it became this cult classic.

Lara Griffin 5:27

Yeah. He's probably the most memorable character.

Doug Janicke 5:32

There was a lot of memorable characters in there, but yes, I I think he stole the show.

Lara Griffin 5:37

Yeah. And I remember he was in the movie Annie, like back in the 80s.

Doug Janicke 5:42

Yes.

Lara Griffin 5:43

So, yeah, he's...

Doug Janicke 5:45

He played a Butler and Clue. Yes. He was Pennywise from it.

Lara Griffin 5:53

Yes.

Doug Janicke 5:54

And that was in the 90s. It was like a TV series, I think, a mini-series. So this is part of his being a vagabond.

Lara Griffin 6:03

Okay.

Doug Janicke 6:04

He really had no plan like some people do. You know, I'm gonna have a career in the movies, and so I've got to do this step. And he just did what he loved, and the career made itself from theirs. He kind of went backwards about it.

Lara Griffin 6:21

Okay. That's really cool.

Doug Janicke 6:22

Yeah, because he always said, well, he actually he is a musician too. So if you ever want to check that out, it's as interesting as his Rocky Horror Picture Show persona. He did three rock albums.

Lara Griffin 6:38

Okay. Oh, interesting.

Doug Janicke 6:39

Yeah, and he wanted to be a musician, and it became what am I gonna do? Act or music? I'm gonna pick one. And he has done a lot of musicals, so he's still been able to sing, but I don't think he's sorry he stopped the singing part, he just went to acting.

Lara Griffin 6:56

Yeah. What kind of music was he like I see hairband or like

Doug Janicke 7:01

It was it was very like everything he does, very eclectic. It was rock.

Lara Griffin 7:05

Okay.

Doug Janicke 7:05

It was kind of a velvet underground blue read kind of thing.

Lara Griffin 7:11

Very cool.

Doug Janicke 7:12

Yes, you should listen. You would you might be kind of scared and amazed. It's interesting.

Lara Griffin 7:18

Okay.

Doug Janicke 7:19

So what's the next book that you have?

Lara Griffin 7:21

So I'm reading a memoir from Susan Orlean called Joyride. And just to preface this really quickly, the way I found out about Susan Orlean was she wrote a book in 2018, appropriately called The Library Book.

Doug Janicke 7:40

Oh, interesting.

Lara Griffin 7:42

So being the nerd librarian that I am, I thought, well, I'm gonna find out what this is about. And this is actually about a fire that took place at the Los Angeles Central Public Library in 1986. It was arson. Oh.

Doug Janicke 8:00

Yeah.

Lara Griffin 8:01

Okay.

Doug Janicke 8:02

So, and she works for the New Yorkers. She's written a lot of, she doesn't consider herself a journalist, but she writes narrative things for magazines and newspapers. And, so she got a hold of this story and just really dug in to find out about this guy. It's very convoluted and dark.

Lara Griffin 8:25

Okay.

Doug Janicke 8:25

As a librarian, it's sad.

Lara Griffin 8:27

Okay. So is it a nonfiction?

Doug Janicke 8:29

Mm-hmm. Because it really did happen.

Lara Griffin 8:31

Okay.

Doug Janicke 8:32

And it was just awful.

Lara Griffin 8:34

Oh, interesting.

Doug Janicke 8:35

A whole library, millions of books.

Lara Griffin 8:40

Oh, that's in 1986. And so how what does her memoir like, does she talk about that in there too?

Doug Janicke 8:47

Yeah, so she's written a lot of other things too. The Orchid Thief is another interesting book about this guy who actually found a black market for certain flowers.

Lara Griffin 9:00

Okay.

Doug Janicke 9:00

And they they did make a movie about it, which I have not seen, so that might be interesting to check out. But this is very this is brand new.

Lara Griffin 9:10

Okay.

Doug Janicke 9:11

So the her memoir called Joy Ride. So if anybody wants to read it, they can have it as soon as I'm done. Since I since I just picked it up. But it's just, you know, it's interesting to hear her take her own take on her own life and why she started writing, why she wanted to be a writer.

Lara Griffin 9:31

Okay.

Doug Janicke 9:32

And those are the things I didn't know about her. I mean, I love her writing. To me, the biggest thing about an author is... I call it their voice. If I can connect with their voice, I'm sold.

Lara Griffin 9:46

Yeah.

Doug Janicke 9:47

And some writers write very interesting things, and I kind of like them, but I don't get into them as much because they just don't have a voice for me.

Lara Griffin 9:57

Yeah. No, I totally get it.

Doug Janicke 10:00

But so when I read this one, as dark as it is, it was very interesting, and she just has a captivating way of writing that she could have just copied the phone book and if did it her way, and I would have read it.

Lara Griffin 10:15

Okay.

Doug Janicke 10:15

That's the kind of voice she has.

Lara Griffin 10:17

Okay.

Doug Janicke 10:17

So I'm very interested. I'm just barely started on this one.

Lara Griffin 10:20

Okay.

Doug Janicke 10:21

But it's gonna be interesting to hear about her life, the parts I don't know... where she came from, how she started.

Lara Griffin 10:28

Yeah. That'll be really interesting.

Doug Janicke 10:30

Yeah, she is a great writer. I really do enjoy her.

Lara Griffin 10:35

Awesome. Thanks, Doug. You bet. I'm just gonna add another bio for the audible listeners. So for those who like to listen to audiobooks, one of my favorites is Amy Poehler's book, and it's called Yes Please. So Amy Poehler from SNL fame, and just kind of documents her life starting, she's from Boston or Massa.., she's from Massachusetts, and then coming out to the Chicago area, and then just her rise and her friendship with Tina Faye, and it's one of those laugh out biographies.

Lara Griffin 11:21

Like I just listened to it, she's got like Seth Meyer will guest voice, Kathleen Turner, and so those are just like that's just a fun, really fun. If you're not wanting anything melancholic, this would be the opposite of it. So it's a very funny biography. And then the other funny one is they're all from SNL, Saturday Night Live, is Colin Jost. So he or Jost, I don't know, but it's called A Very Punchable Face.

Lara Griffin 12:00

So he talks about growing up in New York City, being in Staten Island, how his mom, I think one of the more serious things was that he talked about how his mom was the Chief Medical Officer for the New York Fire Department, and it was during 9-11.

Doug Janicke 12:22

Yeah.

Lara Griffin 12:23

And so I just so he balances it out and the fact that he also went to Harvard and was part of the group there who did like comedy. Conan O'Brien was one of those people too, I believe. And so, so you hear more about how his writing, he he's done a lot of writing for SNL, but it is also one of those like really funny. I can only do audiobooks lately.

Doug Janicke 12:55

I love those, I love those guys from SNL. And he's the one that does the news, right?

Lara Griffin 13:00

Yes,

Doug Janicke 13:01

According to it.

Lara Griffin 13:02

Yes. And so even like, and so it's like with hearing that I understand his friendship with is it David... David, no, Pete Davidson, because Pete Davidson's dad was a New York firefighter who passed away during 9-11, and they both grew up on Staten Island. So yeah, so it was just really in an interesting one. But I love biographies because you get the behind the scenes, and I love to hear like the history, the context, what builds a person, and yeah, what makes them who they are today or what helps them to be successful. Yeah. So.

Doug Janicke 13:48

Do those two books... do they read their own books, those two authors? I like that too. When it's in their own with the author can do their own read of themselves.

Lara Griffin 13:59

There, yeah, when they read it, like there are there's been other books, comedians that I've heard their books, and I'm like, I can't really listen to it. I would rather read their book. There's a couple people that I'm like, oh, maybe not this time. But on the page they're funny.

Doug Janicke 14:20

Yeah.

Lara Griffin 14:21

But sometimes, like for whatever reason.. for like Amy Poehler, the way her intonations, the way her voice is, it's just perfect.

Doug Janicke 14:33

I love her a lot.

Lara Griffin 14:34

Yeah.

Doug Janicke 14:35

Yeah.

Lara Griffin 14:36

Well, thanks again, Doug. And so those are the... so all these books that we've recommended, they're in our catalog.

Doug Janicke 14:44

They are.

Lara Griffin 14:45

And you can check them out, but you can't get to the Joyride by Susan Orlean.

Doug Janicke 14:50

You can have the other two, but give me, I'm a fast reader. Give me a week.

Lara Griffin 14:55

Okay.

Doug Janicke 14:55

Then you can have it.

Lara Griffin 14:57

Awesome. Thank you.

Doug Janicke 14:58

You're welcome.

Lara Griffin 15:01

So now for our staff recommendations, we have Heather. We're gonna go into mysteries. So mysteries are great. I love a good mystery. I can't lose Freida McFadden ones. I couldn't stop reading, and then I got totally sick of them. But we have Heather Gunnell, and she will share well, share a little bit about yourself. You are the YA...

Heather Gunnell 15:31

Yes. So I'm Heather Gunnell. I am the Youth Services Collection Management Librarian for the Rockord Public Library. So I purchase everything for the Children's Department as well as fiction novels for the Young Adult Department for our library system. I also happen to run the staff picks display, even though that is part of the Adult Department, because staff picks are my favorite thing ever. Recommending books is like my life's blood. I love doing it.

Lara Griffin 15:59

Can you do a little promo about the staff picks that you...

Heather Gunnell 16:02

Yeah, so the staff picks display, the primary display is at our main branch downtown, and I rotate it out every week so that there's at least a little bit new each week on that display. Recently, we have started featuring different staff members each month. So for November, right now, our featured staff member is Kaylee, so her books get pride of place at the front of the display, and then everybody else's picks follow behind hers.

Heather Gunnell 16:30

Last month for October, instead of featuring a staff member, we featured horror novels, so sometimes we'll do that. Like in February, we feature romance novels. And it's probably consistently one of our best displays here at the library.

Lara Griffin 16:45

Like it just circulates.

Heather Gunnell 16:46

Yes, as far as circulation goes, yes.

Lara Griffin 16:49

It just people love to go look over there and read. Like, what are some of the thing... the on the little paper?

Heather Gunnell 16:59

The little blurbs on there?

Lara Griffin 16:59

Yeah.

Heather Gunnell 16:59

It's actually really interesting the variety of the way different staff members will write up their staff picks, because we have some staff members who think they need to write an entire book report for me. And bless them, it means I have to make the font very, very tiny when they do that. And then we have a few people who just like, this is the best book ever.

Heather Gunnell 17:18

And that's totally fine. If that's all you want to say about the book, that works for me. It clearly works for the patrons because they check those books out. It brought it drew their attention to that book, and so they wanted to read it.

Lara Griffin 17:29

Yeah. And haven't you been approached before, like, oh, you're the person who recommended it?

Heather Gunnell 17:34

Yes. So because I am a youth services librarian, if I'm working out on the public desk, I'm usually downstairs in the children's department. But sometimes, you know, a parent maybe has just been browsing on the second floor, or they have to like run downstairs and grab something really quick.

Heather Gunnell 17:49

And so then they see my name tag and they're like, "Oh, are you the Heather G on the card?" And I'm like, "Yeah", they're like, "Oh my God, I've checked out so many of your picks." So that's always great to hear. And sometimes we've even had like notes. I came to work one day and someone had mailed a note because they were so happy with the recommendation because they've been having a rough time and it turned out to be a really funny book.

Heather Gunnell 18:08

I've seen where people will actually write notes back on the little staff pick bookmarks. And so then I'll give that to whichever staff member had written the original pick.

Lara Griffin 18:17

Yeah, that's great. So listen up public. We're gonna get a couple of mystery recommendations from Heather.

Heather Gunnell 18:26

Yes, and both of these are featured on the Staff Pick display periodically. So the first one that I'm recommending is The Framed Women of Ardmore House, that is written by Brandy Schillace. It is the first book in a new series. There is only two books out right now. One of the things that drew my attention to this series was I actually saw it on one of the carousels on Cloud Library for Autism Acceptance Month.

Heather Gunnell 18:52

And I was like, oh, what is that? Because I'm very, very familiar with books featuring autistic characters by autistic authors in the children's department. I'm less familiar with what we have upstairs for adults. And so I looked at this, and yes, Brandi Schillace is an autistic, non-binary author, and the main character in her book is an autistic character, Jo Jones. And it's also really fun because Jo Jones is an American character who has moved to the UK because she inherited a giant house there.

Heather Gunnell 19:23

And so we've got that fish out of water element as well because she is an American in a foreign country. She is autistic, she's open with that with some people, and it takes her a little bit longer to tell other people. But it follows the cozy mystery format of she finds a body, she's accused of murder, and now she has to prove her innocence. And I just I really love the authentic autistic representation. There is another character who kind of becomes her sidekick. He is ADHD, he is very, very ADHD, and I love him so much.

Lara Griffin 19:56

What are some of the things that make him like?

Heather Gunnell 20:01

Oh, just every time he's speaking, I'm like, oh God, that's yeah, I feel that in my soul because just the speed at which I know he's talking, even though I'm reading it, and the way he jumps from one idea to another, he runs kind of a junk shop, so he sells all kinds of different things, and his interests all are all over the place. He can hyperfocus to help her do her research on something. Because in typical cozy mystery fashion, you know, it's just one book after another finding one body after another.

Lara Griffin 20:30

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 20:30

Again, there are only two books so far. The second one is called The Dead Come to Stay. I have loved both books. I cannot wait for more from this author and in this series.

Lara Griffin 20:39

Can you tell me more about cozy mysteries?

Heather Gunnell 20:42

Yes, that is probably my favorite genre of mysteries. So sometimes they're also called amateur detective or amateur sleuth, but it is, you know, your average person, nearly always in these, in the very first book, they have stumbled upon a dead body, and either they themselves or someone very, very close to them is accused of the murder.

Heather Gunnell 21:01

And so it becomes up to them to prove innocence. And over the course of several books, they will just continue to stumble over dead bodies. We actually have a really great one that kind of plays with that trope. I think it's actually in our sci-fi fantasy section, though.

Lara Griffin 21:18

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 21:19

The Village Library Demon Hunter Society. It plays with the cozy mystery trope. It's as far as I know, it's a standalone book.

Lara Griffin 21:26

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 21:27

But it reads like your 10 books into a mystery series. And I can't give too much detail with that one, but it's a really fun dismantling of the whole cozy mystery trope if you are familiar with cozy mysteries.

Lara Griffin 21:39

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 21:40

And along with the traditional cozy mystery format of Brandi Schillace's books, you're also getting a lot of family history. So far in both books Joe Jones is researching the history behind a portrait that was found in the first story of a family member and trying to figure out what happened to her. Because there is the modern body that is found in the first book, and then there's also a very, very old body that gets found.

Lara Griffin 22:07

Oh, interesting.

Heather Gunnell 22:08

Yes. And so they're trying to figure out what happened. And is this the woman from the portrait? Is this someone else? So I like that family history that continues into the second book. I don't know if it will continue beyond that. But it is a fun aspect of that series as well.

Lara Griffin 22:23

Okay, great.

Heather Gunnell 22:24

So what's your second book? The second one that I brought with today is the series is so much fun. It was recommended to me forever ago when I finally got to them earlier this year. This is Shady Hollow, which is the first book of the Shady Hollow series written by Juno Black. And these books feature anthropomorphized animals.

Lara Griffin 22:43

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 22:44

So the main character that you follow through all of them is a fox. She is a fox. She is Vera Vixen.

Lara Griffin 22:51

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 22:52

And she is a reporter. And so she's nosy. She wants to figure out what's going on with everything. And every single book opens with a note that's like, just go with it. Just don't overthink it, just go with it. Because, yes, there is a tendency to overthink things like you're eating eggs. Who is providing the eggs that you're eating?

Heather Gunnell 23:13

I really want to know who is providing the eggs. Or who provided the milk for that milkshake or that ice cream? You know, so there are some things that you just can't help but like, but wait a minute. But for the most part, they deal with it very well. You like forget that these are animals, and it really does feel like people because you're dealing with things like extramarital affairs or people lying about their past. The Shady Hollow opens with a toad.

Heather Gunnell 23:42

If I can remember, I'm like six books deep into the series already. So I'm trying to remember. I think it's Otto is his name. Otto Stumpf. No relation to librarians who are Stumpf.

Lara Griffin 23:53

Sure.

Heather Gunnell 23:54

I had so much fun with that when I was reading that one. But it... the first one opens with the murder of the finding the dead body of this toad. And he was a grumpy toad. He didn't like any of his neighbors, he had notebooks full of all his ramblings about people. And so it starts with Vera kind of like digging in and figuring out what happened.

Heather Gunnell 24:15

And again, it follows the cozy mystery format of she is not a detective, she is not a police officer, but she is finding out what is happening. Now, this one does stray from it in the sense that I don't believe, I got several books in, so I start to mix the details. I don't believe she is ever accused of the murder.

Lara Griffin 24:32

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 24:32

But she does want to know the truth of what has actually happened. She does feel like the original person. I want to say in this one, a raccoon is originally brought in, but that's just because he's a petty criminal, so he gets brought in for everything.

Lara Griffin 24:44

Okay. Like a raccoon would be. Yeah.

Heather Gunnell 24:49

Of course the raccoon is a petty thief. Of course he is.

Lara Griffin 24:52

Of course.

Heather Gunnell 24:52

So I think it starts with her trying to be like, yeah, no, this guy didn't kill the toad. Someone else did this. So then there's all kinds of, you know, then there's a poisoning attempt, and other things happen throughout the course. And, you know, of course, the villain is never who you expect it to be. And yeah, again, you do some overthinking. Once you hear some of the details, you're like, wait, relationship between who and who?

Heather Gunnell 25:16

How does that work with those kind of animals? Just don't overthink it. Just go with it. Just pretend they're regular people and go with it. It is such a fun story. This is like, you know, if you were a big fan of Richard Scary as a kid, this is very much the very grown-up version of it. You know, it never gets too graphic, but yeah, you're dealing with adults with adult issues.

Lara Griffin 25:35

I love like the way that you have to really like work, suspend your disbelief. Suspend your disbelief.

Heather Gunnell 25:43

Absolutely, absolutely suspend your disbelief. And for the most part, like when dealing with food and stuff, you don't have to sit and overthink it. Like one of the most popular restaurants in town is run by a panda and he serves all of the... it's a fully vegetarian restaurant.

Lara Griffin 25:58

Okay. I was wondering if it was going to be Chinese, but...

Lara Griffin 26:00

[laughs]

Heather Gunnell 26:01

Basically, yeah. I mean, bamboo, I think, is served pretty frequently there. But it is a vegetarian restaurant. There is, however, like mention in later books, there's a wolf character in one of the later books, and he's complaining about the lack of steak at this vegetarian restaurant, and I want to be like, what restaurant in this world is serving steak? [laughs] Because yeah, you never see any of the characters eating meat.

Lara Griffin 26:28

So interesting.

Heather Gunnell 26:29

Yeah.

Lara Griffin 26:29

Okay.

Heather Gunnell 26:30

 [laughs]

Lara Griffin 26:32

Well, those are fun books, and they're in... they're right here in the library.

Heather Gunnell 26:37

Yep, they're here in the library, you know, on and off the staff books display. Because like I said, I do rotate it weekly to try to have a fresh view, but they are available through the library. I've borrowed both of them on Cloud Library, so if you can't get the physical copy, you should be able to get it digitally. Awesome. Thanks so much, Heather.

Lara Griffin 26:55

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Heather Gunnell 26:56

Yeah, and again, a little shout out to the staff picks that are here at the main library that Heather organizes and puts together. And it's awesome to like have that resource because I know I'm always like, ooh, I wonder what book one of the staff is recommending. So thanks again, Heather. Thank you.

Sara Stumpf 27:19

Technically speaking, I learned in library school that science fiction is a subgenre of what's called speculative fiction. And speculative fiction is the umbrella that holds sci-fi, fantasy, and horror. Because it's all dealing with things that are that are not real in their own way.

Lara Griffin 27:39

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 27:40

And so sci-fi is just one branch of speculative fiction. So sometimes also you'll see people who are like real purists or like people who are like book awards or something, being like, "oh, it's speculative, it's not sci-fi, it's speculative fiction." And it's like, yeah, sure, sure, sure, dude. Okay, Milton. You know, whatever.

Sara Stumpf 28:00

But yeah, there's a lot of sub-genre. There's differences between people who like very thinking heavy sci-fi, like I want it to be like the details of the robots or the details of the whatever aren't as important as the big social commentary. And then there are people, you know, who want the more literary prose and things like that. That's what I would call like Brave New World, 1984 kind of sci-fi. Cormac McCarthy's The Road. That's ...

Lara Griffin 28:33

That's sci-fi?

Sara Stumpf 28:34

Mm-hmm.

Lara Griffin 28:35

Oh, I had no idea.

Sara Stumpf 28:36

Yeah, it's like a journey through an apocalyptic wasteland with an old man and a little boy. But really, the journey isn't that important because the things they do and the people they see are not really as interesting as the like intense feelings of despair and ennui as you journey and like confronting them, but also not feeling any better about yourself. But the journey shapes you, man. The journey shapes you.

Lara Griffin 29:00

I mean, that's what I hear about it. So I never thought it was...

Sara Stumpf 29:05

Yep. And that's like a type. And then you have the funny sci-fi, which tends to be the more things I like. You've got your like hard robot people, the people who are like, I want it to be like very technical. I want to know exactly like these are the people who are like measuring the enterprise and reruns of Star Trek to be like, but how would you do that with that much? You'd need more Dilithium.

Sara Stumpf 29:29

There aren't enough nacelles, you know? Like the very tech heavy, technically heavy sci-fi. And then you've got the type of sci-fi that I would just call like space monsters explosion alien gun go boom. You know? Like it's it's do you like an action movie, but instead of like a dude with a gun, it's an alien with a gun, or maybe we're running from an alien with a gun. Sci-fi thriller, you know, like there's medical, like, oh, this virus is going to kill us all, kind of sci-fi. Like, medical sci-fi is its own thing.

Sara Stumpf 30:02

So sci-fi has a lot of weird little like sub-genres, and the people who like their particular brand generally don't like any of the others. So, like, all mine in here are like funny short, like novella types, because that's what I like.

Lara Griffin 30:17

Okay, awesome. Tell us about your first one.

Sara Stumpf 30:19

All right, so the first one I am bringing to you guys is called All Systems Read by Martha Wells. It is part of a series that is called the Murderbot Diaries, and it is about this robot, and he is able to override the chip in his head that forces him to obey humans and do what the company tells him to do and follow corporate protocol and things like that. He's able to override this chip and he can do whatever he wants, and he has no idea what he wants.

Sara Stumpf 30:46

So he just keeps showing up to work and hoping they don't notice while becoming progressively more and more obsessed with a bad, trashy soap opera sci-fi show called The Rise and Fall of Sanctuary Moon. And he gets assigned to go to this planet and protect this group of what I would call space hippie scientists, like very drum circles, and we talk about our feelings and vibrations, and he's like, these people are so weird, I don't know what to do.

Sara Stumpf 31:16

Like he's not good with normal social interaction with humans, and these people are super weird, and he has no idea what to do. So, like I said, just becomes progressively more interested in watching bad TV. And then a bunch of stuff happens on the planet, and he actually has to save them, and they find out that he has this chip disabled and they don't know if they can trust him or if he's gonna try to kill them all. And it's the start of a series. I believe it's up to eight books now. Oh wow, okay. And they're pretty short. They're almost all under 200 pages. And it got made into a TV show this year by Apple TV called The Murderbot Diary, or called Murderbot. And the series is called The Murderbot Diaries. Because that's his jokey name for himself, like that he's a security robot. What is he good at? Killing people, his name, his nickname for himself when he's like, I'm free to be whoever I want to be. What's my name? I don't know, that's a hard thing. I got identity. What uh... Murderbot. I'm gonna call myself Murderbot and I'm gonna watch bad TV.

Lara Griffin 32:17

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 32:17

And Alexander Skarsgard is in the TV show, it's on Apple TV. I really enjoyed the show, I really enjoyed the book series. There's another one in the series that's coming out this May. And if you really like dry sarcasm, humor, people who are weird, like ultimately it's like a found family type thing.

Sara Stumpf 32:40

Like, you are so weird, I wouldn't have picked you in a million years, but like now, okay, we're in this together. We're bonded, man. We're in it, we're gonna, we're gonna see this through to the end, even though you're a murderbot and you're a space president, and you're a weird space hippie that keeps wanting to play drum circles, and you're having a n incredibly intercomplicated, interpersonal, like romantic relationship drama, and the robot's like, "oh, Jesus, what is that?" That yikes, nope, keep me away from that. So it's just it's fun, and that's what I enjoy about All Systems Read as well.

Lara Griffin 33:16

He had me at bad TV, so

Sara Stumpf 33:18

It's so bad. It's so bad. It's like the worst melodramatic space-themed soap opera you've ever imagined.

Lara Griffin 33:23

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 33:24

And he's like a total fanboy, like devoted to it. Like at one point, one of the characters is like doesn't believe he actually watches this show and tries to trip him up with like he's like, "No, that didn't happen!" Like, he's so passionate about this bad sci-fi TV show that he obsessively watches on his little like interview screen when he's supposed to be like surveying the terrain for you know, threatening flora and fauna, and really he's just watching bad TV in his own head. Which is what I would do at work sometimes if on uncertain days if I could get away with that.

Lara Griffin 33:59

Awesome.

Sara Stumpf 34:00

So, what's your second book? My second pick is called Full Speed to a Crash Landing by Beth Revis. And again, this is a this is a trilogy, but they're all short. I think they're all under 150 pages. And I would say this is like Oceans 11 in space. It is a space heist. She is a thief, spy, general person. She trades information for things.

Sara Stumpf 34:27

And in the first book, she basically is trying to find this object that has crash-landed on a planet before the other team that's there finds it first. And you know, you get to see her kind of manipulate the people around her, but also, you know, there's a little bit of a like little hint of romance in this. There's a guy that she really likes him, he really likes her, he doesn't know she's like a secret space thief.

Sara Stumpf 34:53

And over the course of the trilogy, he finds out, and that goes super great. He loves that because he's a very like morally upstanding like government employee who's never broken the law, and she's like, "oh, I steal stuff all the time." And so that particular book is even more of just a straight up, it's a straight-up Ocean's 11 heist comedy.

Lara Griffin 35:15

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 35:16

With a little touch of romance, and that just makes it really fun as... and you uncover the layers of what looks like she's just stealing something for money, but there's actually deeper like political things going on, but also she just needs money and wants money. It's just a fun trilogy. Beth Revis did a YA series probably about 10, 12 years ago, like during the height of the Hunger Games years. And I really liked that.

Sara Stumpf 35:46

That was like a sci-fi for teenagers about people going through space and being woken up from like being cryogenically frozen too early, so they're never gonna make it to the like beautiful planet. They're awake now. There's a bunch of teenagers running around a spaceship. And it's really nice to see her mature, you know, to go from from writing sci-fi sort of hijinks in space with teens and politics to seeing her writing sci-fi hijinks in space with adults and politics and a little bit of a love story. So that's the second one.

Lara Griffin 36:23

Okay. Cool. I like all these. They're I feel like they're all relatable and they're like easy to like if you're not so if it's new to you, sci-fi.

Sara Stumpf 36:34

And there's that's the thing about sci-fi is it is such a wide net. Is it really is gonna incorporate anything from like something that I would just find boring as watching paint dry, like really technical detail about how the spaceship works or how the robots work, or like these really deep questions, like what is it to be human?

Sara Stumpf 36:54

But I mostly just like it because people do the weird stuff, like just the types, it just allows these characters to be in these completely bizarre situations and to think how would a person respond if they ran away from home at 16 to become like a universally renowned space thief, or how would you respond if you had been rigidly controlled your entire life and now you could do whatever you wanted and you had no clue what to do with freedom? I really think those are just interesting, interesting questions.

Lara Griffin 37:27

Yeah.

Sara Stumpf 37:27

And they're fun.

Lara Griffin 37:28

Yeah.

Sara Stumpf 37:29

So that's why I generally tend to go for more of the light sci-fi, and most of the stuff I like is short. It's not a big fat tome because it's not full of technical detail or long philosophical diatribe. Not that there's not like details or philosophies in there, but it's not gonna beat you over the head with it.

Lara Griffin 37:48

Right.

Sara Stumpf 37:48

I tend to like stuff that's funny and I tend to like stuff that's weird.

Lara Griffin 37:52

It's pretty... probably a pretty more direct.

Sara Stumpf 37:55

Yeah, it's very direct. You know, you just hop in and you get on and you go. It is not one of those there are people who like what is like the nice term is a leisurely paced novel.

Lara Griffin 38:08

Uh-huh.

Sara Stumpf 38:09

Which if you like that man, that's fine. I would call it a boring novel where nothing happens. I read Les Miserables in high school and I was like, "God, Victor Hugo, do you need to spend this many pages describing the sewers of Paris? Nobody cares}, you know. I just I couldn't get into that sort of stuff where there's... it throws a ton of details at you. I want it to be constantly moving.

Lara Griffin 38:33

Yeah.

Sara Stumpf 38:33

I want it to be really action-packed. If I'm gonna read it, I want it to be fun. And yes, it can ask me some big questions, but like if it asks me a bunch of big questions and the answers at the end is everyone dies, nothing's worth anything. Like thousands of years in the future, humans are still terrible wretches that'll ruin, you know, just sell you out to Satan for one corn chip. I'm not interested in reading that book. I'm sorry.

Sara Stumpf 38:59

I want to read the one, you know, where it might end ambiguously or it might be open for a sequel, but there's something that makes you smile when you read it, not that you just end it and be like, well, that was dark and depressing or boring. Which is a great segue into my third pick.

Lara Griffin 39:18

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 39:18

Which is by far the weirdest thing I'm gonna tell you about. And considering I think I set the bar pretty high with those first two, let's just go in. It's called American Hippo by Sarah Gailey. And I need you to know that this was a real thing in the 1830s. There was a proposal to bring hippos from Africa to the swamps of Louisiana for meat. This was an actual, like, pitched idea, like because there was meat shortages.

Lara Griffin 39:45

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 39:46

And this is before, you know, you had a lot of ranching in the west and things like that. There was a real plan to bring hippos to the swamps and the bayous and to just let them loose and then hunt them for meat. Hippos are incredibly aggressive animals.

Lara Griffin 40:01

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 40:02

And thankfully this never happened. But this book, American Hippo, is like... it's a sci-fi set in the past.

Lara Griffin 40:09

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 40:09

It's set in the 1860s.

Lara Griffin 40:11

Uh-huh.

Sara Stumpf 40:12

It's dealing with the issues that we think of as our civil war, but their history is totally different because they brought over all these hippos who escaped from their farms and like roam the swamps of Louisiana totally feral and kill people.

Lara Griffin 40:25

Oh wow.

Sara Stumpf 40:26

And so you get a little it it's another one of those found family people from all walks of life. Let's get the team together kind of thing. And this guy who is like a hippo wrangler, and he rides one of the hippos. He has convinced it to like accept him. And but they're very, I mean, even in Africa, the hippos are incredibly aggressive. They kill more people than great white sharks every year by a huge margin.

Lara Griffin 40:52

Wow.

Sara Stumpf 40:52

They are highly territorial, they don't like people. And they... so this is like a what if sci-fi of the past. So it's all very it's very steampunk, like you got steamships and you know, you got the social issues of the 1800s playing out in this world where it's like, okay, guys, let's get on our hippos and we're gonna it's almost like a western.

Lara Griffin 41:18

Yeah.

Sara Stumpf 41:18

So it blends this weird element of a real history and a fake past with like the tropes of a Western, a little bit of a heist story, a little bit of a really diverse cast of found family, all this sort of new and interesting, weird technology that never happened, but like could have in the past. And that that book, American Hippo, it was originally published as two short novellas, and then she published them together as one book. And so it definitely feels like there's a first part and a second part. So that one's the longest single book that I'm recommending.

Lara Griffin 41:53

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 41:54

But it's because it was originally published as two short books that were each like 150 pages.

Lara Griffin 41:58

Uh-huh. Do the hippos become tame? Do they become friends with the people?

Sara Stumpf 42:05

Do they get along with certain people that if you if they were raised on a ranch and they were successfully somewhat domesticated? I would say is it's kind of like you could become friends with a coyote or a fox.

Lara Griffin 42:18

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 42:19

Or a raccoon. Have you ever seen those videos where like people are feeding hot dogs to raccoons? It's like that. It's like it's fundamentally a wild animal.

Lara Griffin 42:26

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 42:26

If you get one that likes you and you feed it and you have a good relationship, maybe you can have this raccoon come to your door and you can pet it and you know, feed it hot dogs or whatever and have a, you know, have a good time. But it's fundamentally a wild animal.

Lara Griffin 42:40

Yeah.

Sara Stumpf 42:40

And, so they all have like their individual hippos that like and trust them, but it doesn't mean that they wouldn't get in a fight with another hippo and just accidentally kill a human and not care at all. And then you have these wild hippos, and they're going on this sort of steamboat adventure to basically prevent what you can see as kind of elements of the Civil War. And so they're going through all this area where there's these feral hippos, and it has a very Jurassic Park feel in a way.

Lara Griffin 43:13

Uh-huh.

Sara Stumpf 43:14

Like they have to go up the river on their hippos and hope they don't run into any of the scary, like, feral hippos, and then they have to like fight this guy who's like trying to weaponize the hippos, and like it's just the weirdest thing. It is just, and it's everything I love about sci-fi. It just takes something that is so completely weird. Like you're like, what were you smoking when you came up with this idea? Like, wear in your creative mind do something like wild feral hippo wranglers, like if you fall in the water, they will see the splash and you're done.

Sara Stumpf 43:56

You know, like it it's got almost a, you know, Jaws feel or a Jurassic Park feel of those, you know, and both of those, depending on who you ask, can be classed as sci-fi. You know, Jurassic Park's definitely sci-fi or, you know, genetically modified dinosaurs, but in some ways, Jaws is in those sort of like "the creature is going to get me." Those are also kind of a part of sci-fi speculative fiction, depending on what kind of animal it is. You know, the Meg where it's lasted millions of years, but it's hidden from humans, now it's eating us. That's that's basically sci-fi as well.

Lara Griffin 44:34

Okay.

Sara Stumpf 44:34

And so I really liked American Hippo because it was just, I've never found a weirder premise for a book. And it works. It you think to yourself, why would this work? This is so weird. And it works so well, you get so attached to the characters, to their bonds with each other, to how far they'll go for this like motley ragtag crew to make it through and you know, just hopefully not get eaten or stampeded or thrown off a dam into a hippo-infested water or something.

Sara Stumpf 45:04

It's just it's completely bizarre. And like I said, all three of these... my picks, what I like sci-fi for is the straight creativity, the humor, the humanity of it. There's plenty of people who like deep philosophical sci-fi where it's gonna be like 500 pages and just be very blunt in the fact that it's asking you about like "what is humanity?", but I'd rather read a little story about a dumb robot who watches bad TV, or a guy who rides a hippo, or a girl who is a space thief, because it's also answering those same questions about like "what is humanity?", but while I'm laughing and I'm constantly surprised.

Lara Griffin 45:46

Okay, that's awesome. So we have all these books at the library.

Sara Stumpf 45:49

We have all these books at the library. All Systems Red, we have both individually and as a compilation that's called like the Murderbot Diaries Volume One. Full Speed to a Crashed Landing, that's an individual one. American Hippo, we have as the duo that has both of the hippo series books in it together as one American Hippo book. And then these are also on eBook. I know because I listened to the American Hippo.

Sara Stumpf 46:14

So I know I know we got an audiobook of that in Cloud Library. And I think I read Full Speed to C crash Landing in eBook as well. I'm pretty I'm 95% sure that's an eBook. So these are those are just my particular interests. But I would say if you're a person who doesn't normally gravitate towards sci-fi, but you do tend to gravitate towards fast-paced things.

Lara Griffin 46:42

Not me. Yeah.

Sara Stumpf 46:43

Yeah. Not everything in sci-fi is like watching a ship drift through space, answering questions about desolation, and like how many isolinear chips are in this replicator. Like, no, that's not that's not what it all is. You know, pick the skinny books.

Lara Griffin 47:00

Yeah.

Sara Stumpf 47:00

They're more fun, they're definitely weirder.

Lara Griffin 47:03

Well, that's awesome. Thanks, Sarah. I appreciate you coming on and giving us your recommendations. And I know there's gonna be a lot of people who are gonna be really interested in these books, and especially when it's so cold outside.

Sara Stumpf 47:20

It's cold outside. Go on a going on an adventure through space or a hippo marsh, or you'll find also most of these are on the staff picks display at the main location because they are my staff picks. And if they're not there, I can introduce you to some equally weird sci-fi space, like space type of things that I didn't bring in today because we only have so much time and I could talk about this for like two hours and nobody would listen to that podcast because it'd be really boring. Be like, "oh, that girl never shuts up." But yeah, you can absolutely find them at Main, usually on the staff pick display, if you don't want them in audiobook.

Lara Griffin 47:59

Okay, great. Thanks so much.

Sara Stumpf 48:01

You're welcome.

Lara Griffin 48:02

Okay. So we just heard from Sarah about sci-fi, some science fiction books, and so now we're gonna hear from Clay. Clay Johnson, who is our latest, newest librarian who has joined the Adult Services staff here at the main library. Welcome, Clay. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be at the Rockford Public Library?

Clay Johnson 48:30

Yeah, thank you for having me. I came down to Rockford Public Library. I was previously living up in Madison, which is where I got my library sciences degree. And then I had a friend on the staff who let me know when there was an opening. And I was lucky enough to make it down here. And now here I am.

Lara Griffin 48:57

Awesome. We're so glad to have you. And you were one of the first people who said, like, "I've got some book recommendations." So let's hear about your first one for science fiction.

Clay Johnson 49:09

So science fiction, I tried to pick a decent spread here. My first one is a... it's one that is kind of straddles the line between young adult and adult. So it could be good for older teens as well if you have an older teen in your life or are an older teen. It is called Iron Widow. It's by Xiran Jay Zhao. I just finished the second book in the series and I've been really enjoying it. It is pretty snappy in terms of its pacing, which was nice.

Clay Johnson 49:43

And then I actually listened to the audiobooks, which I thought were quite well done. We do have both the audiobooks and the physical in our collection. And it science fiction with some... it's very science fiction, it's set on a completely different world from our Earth. In a sort of fictionalized China. There are some ancient like historic Chinese characters that are in the story. Very, very fictionalized because they are piloting giant robots.

Lara Griffin 50:20

Okay. Kind of Voltron?

Clay Johnson 50:24

Yeah, like so it's like, yeah, you have to have two people in the robot to control it. A nd they're you know fighting in this war against these encroaching aliens, and there's a lot of different kind of some politicking that has to happen because of that. The protagonist joins the army to get revenge. Because her sister is killed. And yeah, some some very like interesting things where we're doing a lot of giant robots, and then we're also kind of unpacking some things outside of that. So I had a really good time with it. I'm looking forward to, I believe it's a trilogy, so the third one should come out at some point.

Lara Griffin 51:05

Is it a thick book?

Clay Johnson 51:07

It's like fairly chunky, but not too bad. I didn't feel intimidated by it. Like sometimes I do, like some of those big fantasy sci-fi books are like this is 800 pages, it's gonna take me three months.

Lara Griffin 51:23

Okay.

Clay Johnson 51:24

I thought it read really and like it was a much quicker read than I expected it.

Lara Griffin 51:31

Okay. Is Fourth Wing considered sci-fi? Or is that more romanticy?

Clay Johnson 51:36

I believe Fourth Wing is more fantasy in terms of genre.

Lara Griffin 51:41

Okay.

Clay Johnson 51:42

The line is blurry.

Lara Griffin 51:45

Okay.

Clay Johnson 51:45

But a very, very fast and loose definition is usually dragons or fantasy.

Lara Griffin 51:53

Okay, thank you.

Clay Johnson 51:54

Dragons and magic, usually fantasy. Science fiction, there might be a robot or a spaceship of some kind rather than a dragon or magic. But there are books that have all of those things in them. So it's like I said, very fast and loose.

Lara Griffin 52:12

Okay, awesome. Thank you for helping me understand the lines.

Clay Johnson 52:16

They're very blurry. And that is also part of why we have our science fiction and fantasy together, because yeah.

Lara Griffin 52:24

Awesome. And so what's your next-

Clay Johnson 52:28

Yeah, my next one is um more of a classic in terms of science fiction. It's The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin. It is one of my all-time favorite books. It is not necessarily a harder science fiction, like is what some people will say rather than like a... like Star Wars is considered more like soft science fiction because it's not necessarily I mean, Star Wars is often considered a science fantasy.

Lara Griffin 53:00

Okay.

Clay Johnson 53:01

Because you have, you know, things like the force at play. Left Hand of Darkness is a like almost anthropological way of writing. It is about a researcher who comes down to a planet and then starts interacting with the people there. There is also some political intrigue because I do enjoy a good science fiction or fantasy political intrigue. And there's like sort of a romance that's happening, but it's also really more about how like these people and cultures are interacting and like what being an outsider coming in means.

Clay Johnson 53:49

And it's also one of, I think one of her more widely known books because it does explore gender a lot. She was one of the writers who was in sort of feminist science fiction circles. I don't know if she explicitly considered herself a feminist science fiction writer, but her work gets kind of put in those circles a lot. So I think it's a really interesting read. It really stuck with and it tends to get reissued every couple of years in a new edition. I like the editions we have, they're nice, good hardcovers.

Lara Griffin 54:35

Uh-huh.

Clay Johnson 54:36

But yeah, I would highly recommend it if you have not read it.

Lara Griffin 54:41

And then you have one more.

Clay Johnson 54:43

I have one more. This one is a more modern one. And it is in space. The title is An Unkindness of Ghosts by Rivers Solomon. My two second ones are really like books that I kind of like have chewed on a lot. Like they're they will make you think. That doesn't mean they're hard to read, but they do have like a lot going on in them, which I think is very fun.

Clay Johnson 55:19

The Unkindness of Ghosts is set on a generation ship, which is like a giant spaceship with... I don't remember the exact numbers of people, but like hundreds to thousands of people, like essentially this city or even country that is traveling through space with the goal of when you when you reach your destination, you then have enough people to kind of like start a colony or new civilization. And The Unkindness of Ghosts really kind of looks at some of the social stratification that happens on that spaceship.

Clay Johnson 56:02

I think it's very literalized in terms of like if you're on the lower decks, you're pretty much lower in status and, you know, looking at how that intersects with some other things like race and disability. Yeah, there's some just some really like interesting things that happen in there that I still kind of am mulling over like years later. I think it did win one award when it came out, and I'm blanking on the name of which award it did, but it was very well deserved. And it did make me cry in the course of reading. I think it a little bit of a heavier one, but I believe it does have a happy ending, like it kind of ends on a hopeful note, if I'm not misremembering.

Lara Griffin 56:54

Which can you repeat the title again?

Clay Johnson 56:57

Yep. So it is An Unkindness of Ghosts by Rivers Solomon.

Lara Griffin 57:00

Okay, awesome.

Clay Johnson 57:02

Yeah.

Lara Griffin 57:03

Wow. It's had a lasting impression.

Clay Johnson 57:07

Yeah, it has been a couple years since I read it, but when I was looking at different books to pull for this, I was like, all right, I mean we we gotta do this one.

Lara Griffin 57:17

Yeah. Are there are there are these books that you would read again?

Clay Johnson 57:23

I definitely would. Left Hand of Darkness has been on my like reread list for a bit. It'll take me a little because I just finished Iron Widow, I think I'll maybe give that a couple years and then come back to it. But I think they all do like they have rereadability, which I enjoy.

Lara Griffin 57:45

And so what do you love about science fiction and the genre?

Clay Johnson 57:50

I like science fiction a lot because it is a really good space to kind of like play in and pull out some like really big ideas about what humanity can be and authors then get the chance to kind of like pull those out into bigger, more dramatic or you know, just weirder stuff that think makes it really fun, or sometimes not really fun. Sometimes you get a very serious science fiction novel, which is also enjoyable, and I have kind of skewed a little more serious on this one.

Clay Johnson 58:34

There are also some very fun, wacky ones, which I think Sarah mentioned, she skews a little wackier, so I was like, okay, I'll try and like come back from the other way. Yeah. But yeah, I really enjoy that I mean... that's the case with all fiction, you can, you know, decide what you want to address, but with science fiction, there's some really like... you don't have to be solely in the realm of metaphor, necessarily within the book. So I think it's really fun to see what people come up with.

Lara Griffin 59:08

Yeah. And what they create in the world that they've decided to and the different situations that the characters walk through.

Clay Johnson 59:20

Yeah, exactly.

Lara Griffin 59:21

So well thank you, Clay, for coming in today.

Clay Johnson 59:24

Thank you for having me.

Lara Griffin 59:25

Appreciate it.

Clay Johnson 59:26

Yeah, thanks.

Lara Griffin 59:27

Well, yeah, I love all these different books that everybody has shared today from our science fiction, our biographies, and mysteries. And I'm mulling through what we're gonna do next. Maybe horror.

Clay Johnson 59:45

Oh, okay. I might have some picks for that. [laughs]

Lara Griffin 59:48

[laughs] Yeah. Well, thanks again, everyone, for being a part of our podcast. And we look forward to our next one. I'm not sure what it's gonna be, but I definitely want to do more staff recommendations because it's great to hear like from you, Clay, and from other staff because who doesn't have a book either in their ear or on their side table or in their... I think even Doug was saying he has like probably four or five that he's reading.

Clay Johnson 1:00:25

 I have a pile.

Lara Griffin 1:00:25

  Yeah. There's a pile of books that all of us staff have that we are just reading through and in different genres. And so I love that we have such an awesome staff that we can pull from and hear [lofi music plays] what they'd recommend. So thank you again.

Clay Johnson 1:00:47

Yeah, thanks so much for hosting.