Kaitlyn Coombes 0:00

So, for example, for physical materials, you will buy one physical item that can be lent out to one person at a time, and you replace it if the condition gets bad. However, digital items don't come in with these built-in kind of limitations, as we know from our experience with websites and downloading from websites. Technically, digital items will never get worn out from overuse, and they won't need to be replaced in that way. And it's possible for multiple people to view them or access them at once. [lofi music plays]

Lara Griffin 0:47

I'm your host, Lara Griffin. We often think of libraries as holding tactile physical books. Do you know that you can check out audiobooks and ebooks from the library? I must admit that I was a late adopter to audiobooks. Now I digest audiobooks like candy. If you like listening to podcasts, maybe audiobooks are for you. Another of our electronic resources that we have are databases. If you are wondering what that is, our guest today will tell you about it and how the library can save you money.

Lara Griffin 1:19

When I have questions about databases, ebooks, and audiobooks, I look for Katelyn, who is the RPL Digital Content Specialist. Today, we will talk about some of the technologies that the library has to offer. Welcome, Katelyn.

Kaitlyn Coombes 1:36

Thank you, Laura.

Lara Griffin 1:37

I'm so excited to be able to talk about this. This is something I'm really passionate about. So for people who don't know who you are, would you introduce yourself and share a bit about how you got here?

Kaitlyn Coombes 1:48

Sure. So my name is Katelyn. I've got my master's in library and information science. When I was younger, like many other librarians, I loved to read. I would read all the time. And so people would always say, wow, you're gonna grow up and be a librarian. And it was to the point where I was like, you know, there are other aspects of my personality besides liking books. But I did become a librarian, so I guess they were right after all.

Lara Griffin 2:17

So let's dive in. So what are, like for me, looking back, I had no idea what an ebook or an audiobook was, and it sounded really complicated, and it wasn't until I started working here at the library that I understood what they are. So if you could give us a quick description.

Kaitlyn Coombes 2:39

So the quickest description is that ebooks and e-audiobooks are the digitized versions of the physical books and the sound recordings that you used to get on CD in the library. That's the quick definition. The more complicated definition is actually what we're purchasing is a license. So, for example, for physical materials, you will buy one physical item that can be lent out to one person at a time, and you replace it if the condition gets bad. However, digital items don't come in with these built-in kind of limitations, as we know from our experience with websites and downloading from websites.

Kaitlyn Coombes 3:17

Technically, digital items will never get worn out from overuse, and they won't need to be replaced in that way. And it's possible for multiple people to view them or access them at once. This is not a very profitable method for publishers, as you might imagine, who would prefer that libraries and other institutions buy more copies of their book than less. So instead, we created licensing models, and this is closely related to copyright.

Kaitlyn Coombes 3:46

So a license agreement is, in my own words, an agreement between the publishers, the library, and the platform that hosts the content. So, for example, Cloud Library is the platform through which you access different materials like lessons in chemistry, Onyx Storm, all the ebooks and the e-audiobooks that you're listening to. So the terms of these licensee agreements are the length of time that the library can use and loan the digital material, how many people can access the material at one time, and how many times that the item can be loaned out.

Kaitlyn Coombes 4:24

So when we buy licenses, when we buy ebooks, what we are buying isn't so much like a product. What we're buying is access to an existing product with agreed upon restrictions on that. So when we bought lessons in chemistry, which we definitely bought multiple copies of, just because we bought a license doesn't mean that we now own that access forever. Instead, when we bought the ebook, we bought the license agreement. So it can only be used by one person at a time at the agreed upon price set by the publisher for a set period of time, which in this case was a year. So what the library did was we paid for one year's worth of access for one person at a time to access that license.

Lara Griffin 5:11

So is that why if I try to put a hold on it and somebody else already is like listening or reading it, I'm not able to access it.

Kaitlyn Coombes 5:21

Right. A lot of people are confused as to why there are holds on digital items, because of course we understand that technically they can be accessed by multiple people at once. But because that's not a sustainable model for the industry, that's not how it's turned out and how libraries actually function in those models. So what happens is a book will be popular, like Lessons in Chemistry, and then the year will be up.

Kaitlyn Coombes 5:45

So then we will buy again the item for the full price in order to be able to provide one copy for one year. If we want to provide multiple copies during the course of that year, we will buy the license multiple times, and then we will have to renew all those licenses each year as we think the demand is going to be.

Lara Griffin 6:03

Oh, so that's interesting. So do you usually buy one license per book, or do you buy multiple?

Kaitlyn Coombes 6:11

Yeah, so that's a great question. It depends on the demand.

Lara Griffin 6:14

Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 6:14

That's why it's so important to place suggestions for items directly in Cloud Library, because sometimes items will come and they'll be in the recommendation cards, and they will be very old items, maybe the information is outdated, or they'll be older, but still very expensive. And the library has to make a decision between what are sustainable ranges of items that we can buy based on certain standards.

Lara Griffin 6:43

Yeah, that makes sense because I think at times I'll listen to a podcast, there's an author, but their book is like four or five years old, and then I'm like, oh, I really want to read that book. And I notice like that we don't, we may not have the physical copy, but we may have the ebook or the audiobook, or we might not have it at all. And so then I look for you and I'll ask, hey, can we get this book?

Kaitlyn Coombes 7:11

Yeah, so people are confused because they're like, well, at one point this was a very popular book. Why don't you have it? And understandably for major authors, they'll be like, Why don't you have this whole important series? And the answer is we can't afford to keep buying the entire series each year. So we do have to make decisions based off of that. So whenever items come into the carts, I have to ask myself questions like, is this a series? How did the earlier works in the series do?

Kaitlyn Coombes 7:40

Do we even own any of the earlier volumes in the series? Because just owning volume five isn't very helpful to most people. Who is the author? Are the author's other works very popular? Is this a genre that does well and that people in Rockford are interested in? What are the publications like Booklist and Publishers Weekly, which do book recommendations... What are they saying about it? Because sometimes they can get pretty savage.

Lara Griffin 8:05

Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 8:06

I always enjoy reading Kirkus reviews, for example, because they get straight to the heart of the matter. They will tell you things like "a sensitive book with informed opinions," or they'll say something like, "a massive miss from a usually popular author." Disappointing. Skip for next time. So I do love to consult those as well. Another thing that we do have to consider is... do we have the physical copies of the book? If it's an ebook and there's not going to be a huge demand on it, but we do have the physical copy available, it might be the prudent choice to get a different digital book, which we can't make available physically.

Lara Griffin 8:43

So, like that, I guess it makes me think: are ebooks and audiobooks cheaper for the library than a physical book? Like I think about... one of the things I think about with these digital books is they're stored in servers, and so we don't have to take up space in our huge library.

Kaitlyn Coombes 9:07

Exactly. That's why you can... libraries can have such a huge catalog of digital items, is because we don't have to worry about storage space. But in question of whether or not it is cheaper to have digital items, the answer is definitely no. And there's about four reasons for that. So, first, just remember the library is probably also buying physical copies of the book. So, in general, we're buying an additional copy, we're just buying it digitally.

Kaitlyn Coombes 9:33

Second, the digital price will usually be the same or a higher price than the physical copy, especially as time passes. Often the price of physical copies will drop over time. Digital copies usually retain the same price as when they were released.

Lara Griffin 9:49

Oh, that's so interesting.

Kaitlyn Coombes 9:50

Right, that's why I'll get requests for books from like 2002, 2004, but they'll still be in the high digits because the price hasn't adjusted to the time at all. So the third reason that audio e-audiobooks and ebooks are more expensive is because you have to consistently replace them. Most items only have a one or two year limit before we have to repurchase it. Most physical items we don't have to repurchase that often.

Kaitlyn Coombes 10:18

So the argument often set by publishers and other people in the industry is well, you have to replace physical items. Why should you not have to replace digital items? But the truth is, you just don't replace physical items that often. And because you're limited by space, people understand more why you don't have an older copy of a book versus a new copy of a book. But digitally, people are aware that there's no limit on space.

Kaitlyn Coombes 10:49

So people ask, well, why don't you have both the old copy and the new copy? Which the answer, of course, comes to pricing. And then fourth, the demand's just a lot higher, especially for audiobooks. Audiobooks are far more expensive than ebooks, both physically and digitally. However, when audiobooks were on CDs, they were less convenient to use because you had to use them with the CD player or in a car. While there was a demand, it definitely was not as strong as a demand as it is right now. And there definitely wasn't as huge of a range of different items that people can request from.

Lara Griffin 11:25

Yeah, that's so interesting. I've seen my audiobook usage go up so much. And currently I probably have like four books that are checked out.

Kaitlyn Coombes 11:39

Oh, yeah. And power users use those resources.

Lara Griffin 11:43

Saving a ton of money, of course.

Kaitlyn Coombes 11:45

Exactly.

Lara Griffin 11:47

And I think that's so interesting about the demand. And I bet, like when movies come out about... like a lot of our movies are from books.

Kaitlyn Coombes 11:57

Oh, yes, that's that's a huge thing. I know Cloud Library and Overdrive does a good job of making spotlight collections, which we also try to put on Cloud Library to make sure that people can see. And again, publishers are very aware that it's being driven from the movie. So you can usually tell because they'll change the cover to be closer to like the media adaption. So interesting little tricks like that.

Lara Griffin 12:22

So we've talked about Cloud Library, which is a platform for ebooks and audiobooks, and Hoopla as well. You can get ebooks and audiobooks from there. So what are the differences between the two? I have both because that's what comes with our library card. We can have access to both. So could you share with us like what that difference?

Kaitlyn Coombes 12:46

Yeah. So for a patron, the biggest difference between Hoopla and Cloud Library is that Hoopla has multiple different forms of media. So not only does Hoopla have ebooks and e-audiobooks, it also has movies and TV seasons and comics. They just have a wider catalog. But the big difference between the two of them uses the licensing that I talked about earlier.

Kaitlyn Coombes 13:08

So for Cloud Library, most items we buy individually. So we go through that cart, we check each item, we look through the lists and add them. Hoopla is different. In Hoopla, the publisher has already made a deal with Hoopla to sell them a bulk amount of licenses. So it's between Hoopla and the publisher what items are available on Hoopla. Then Hoopla makes the items available to libraries. The libraries are then not charged just for having the license available. The libraries are charged by what items people check out. And that's why we have to have Hoopla checkout limits. Because people can just check out as many items as they want within the 15-item limit.

Lara Griffin 13:52

Okay. So what limits checkouts in Hoopla, unlike Cloud Library, is not the holds. In Cloud Library, you have to wait for a license to be available. Hoopla, instant availability. If you have the checkout, you can check out the item. Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 14:13

T he big benefit to Hoopla is because we're not paying by title, we can offer a much bigger range of different items than we would if we were using just the Cloud Library model. It is confusing that you have to go between two different apps, but the benefits of it make it worthwhile for the library to invest.

Lara Griffin 14:32

Okay. Yeah, I'm a Cloud Library girl. My kids, I like that for my kids, there is a Hoopla Kids that's available, so it kind of restricts their ages of what they can check out. I enjoy that as well.

Kaitlyn Coombes 14:50

One of the other things I really like about Hoopla is you can checkout season passes, and you can check out what they call binge passes. So, for example, we have the Hallmark binge pass. You can get access to hundreds of Hallmark movies, but just with one checkout. So even though you get 15 checkouts and you can with one checkout, you can watch hundreds of movies. So for patrons, it's a great deal.

Lara Griffin 15:16

Yeah, that's awesome. So I was just thinking, what is the average cost of a book that's being checked out and a cost of like a movie?

Kaitlyn Coombes 15:27

Yeah, so it's gonna be different on Hoopla and Cloud Library, because for Hoopla, we're just being charged for the one use, and on Cloud Library, we're being charged from the wide range of uses that could be used. So for Hoopla, usually one checkout will cost the library about three dollars.

Lara Griffin 15:45

Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 15:46

Which doesn't sound like much. But when you think about each person usually checks out about five to ten items, I would say, which is workable. But as we get more people involved in our services, which is a wonderful end goal, and more people should do it, it does end up costing the library more money.

Lara Griffin 16:03

Yeah.

Kaitlyn Coombes 16:04

That doesn't mean we'll stop using Hoopla, but it is something that we do have to consider.

Lara Griffin 16:08

Yeah. And just a reminder like the library gets charged. Those who have a library card do not get charged.

Kaitlyn Coombes 16:16

Yes. I mean, that's that's the main benefit of the library.

Lara Griffin 16:20

Correct. Yeah. And I had, you know, I have family who are out of state and they use Libby, and I sometimes get phone calls about Libby, like, why don't we have Libby? Just kind of curious. And Libby's like another, like a Cloud Library or a Hoopla.

Kaitlyn Coombes 16:40

Yeah, so Libby's owned by a company called Overdrive. So the library actually originally had Libby and we enjoyed using it, but they began charging us a large platform fee. So not only were we being charged for purchasing the licenses, we were also being charged just for being on the platform and maintaining it.

Lara Griffin 16:59

Oh wow.

Kaitlyn Coombes 17:00

So that's actually pretty standard.

Lara Griffin 17:02

Uh-huh.

Kaitlyn Coombes 17:02

What upset us was the cost of the platform fee, which we felt was not fair relevant to our actual usage. Meanwhile, Cloud Library offered us a much better deal where there would be a much, much smaller platform fee and offered to help us transfer all of our licenses onto Cloud Library. By making that choice, we were able to buy a lot more digital items, which at that time was crucial because we really didn't have a catalog yet.

Kaitlyn Coombes 17:29

This was the time that we really needed to invest that money into buying new titles. So that was why we originally moved to Cloud Library. I will say the library always is listening for what patron wants are and what their preferences are. So if it turns out that most people now really want Libby in terms of Cloud Library, maybe, like you said, they have a family member who's also used it and they find that it's more intuitive. The best thing that you can do is tell the library staff or fill out a form saying that that's what you prefer, and we'll definitely take considerations into account.

Lara Griffin 18:00

Yeah, that's great. Sounds like we have a great relationship though with Hoopla and Cloud Library anyway. So there's another thing that the library offers electronically are databases, and it's another way that library patrons can save money. So you are the queen of the databases.

Kaitlyn Coombes 18:26

I rule alone. [both laugh]

Lara Griffin 18:28

So can you... I just started a Udemy.

Kaitlyn Coombes 18:33

Oh, Udemy, yeah.

Lara Griffin 18:34

Udemy, Udemy.

Kaitlyn Coombes 18:36

Yes, I've heard the creator was literally came online and was like, I've heard it both ways. Please stop arguing.

Lara Griffin 18:42

So and I have just started like taking a Google Analytics class.

Kaitlyn Coombes 18:50

So there Udemy is great because it offers so many different classes and skills that usually you have to pay a lot of money to get a qualified professional to teach you. So the library is really happy to subscribe to that platform so that people can experience all these different skills. And the reason we picked Udemy in particular was because they had a lot of skills that relate to jobs and upskilling.

Kaitlyn Coombes 19:14

So there's a lot of stuff about digital marketing, about real estate, about learning different languages. There are some things that are about like personal enrichment. A big thing that I see are tips for dealing with anxiety, for time management, for giving speeches, as well as long and detailed courses about how to do, like you said, statistics and analytics, but also how to do common programs like Microsoft Word and Excel and to make the best of them. I recently took an Excel course and I was a little embarrassed because I thought, yeah, Microsoft Excel, I know what I'm doing.

Lara Griffin 19:49

I've seen your Excel, your Excel nest.

Kaitlyn Coombes 19:52

I've got a good spreadsheet game, I will say. But that's what I thought. And then I took the course and I was like, there is so much more that I can do using this program.

Lara Griffin 19:59

Oh, that's true.

Kaitlyn Coombes 20:00

And I didn't even know. It's really expanded, especially the way that I'm able to work and manipulate data and present it to people.

Lara Griffin 20:08

Oh, that's great. So Udemy is one of our databases that we have. So what like, can you just share like what are databases that we have in the library and how people can access it?

Kaitlyn Coombes 20:25

Definitely. So I would say we largely have like two kinds of databases. There are more academic databases, which are the ones that people usually think about. So there's something like our science and information, and our uh alternative health watch, Gale History, those are the ones that people really think about. So what happens is platforms like EBSCO gather information from different scholarly journals and collect them onto one platform that people can search and use.

Kaitlyn Coombes 20:55

So that's their traditional research that people think about, especially with academic libraries. People usually have the most experience with those because that's what people work with in school. But I'm also really proud of the fact that we also offer services that are more practical, not just for getting knowledge, but also for performing important tasks. For example, we have resume creator at the Rockford Public Library as one of the digital services that we offer. And it will help people to construct and put together a resume just by entering information into the assigned fields.

Lara Griffin 21:28

Oh, that's so important.

Kaitlyn Coombes 21:31

Similarly, we also have ones like Gale Peterson's Test and Career Prep is a database and service that I am a huge fan of. Not only does it cover a wide variety of different kinds of tests. So you might hear test and career prep and think something like, oh, the ACT, the SAT, more traditional tests. And they definitely have those, but they also have different certifications exams, especially for vocational skills.

Kaitlyn Coombes 21:57

So not only are there test preparation material. For graduating high school or the GRE. There's also stuff like going into real estate, going to be a postal worker. All the books that you would need to purchase and all the test practices that you would purchase and can become quite expensive, you can get for free through the library.

Lara Griffin 22:18

Wow, that's awesome. I am thinking about my high schooler who is wanting to start, you know, practicing for SATs and the ACT.

Kaitlyn Coombes 22:29

So you just said some keywords to me that make me go, oh, because often, you know, they'll have promoted to them these big physical copies. I certainly remember going to study at a local restaurant with my friends, and we each had five different study books that cost us so much money. And it's so nice because we can provide that, and you can get that experience and that practice, but without having to pay an exclusionary cost.

Lara Griffin 22:54

Oh, that's great. So for you, how many databases do we have? And how do you choose them?

Kaitlyn Coombes 23:02

That's a fun question. So we actually have over a hundred.

Lara Griffin 23:05

Wow. Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 23:08

There are some databases that are tucked within bigger databases, but if we don't look at those, there are over a hundred. So that's very exciting that we have. So usually for database selection, what will happen is a vendor will creep into my email going like, Hey, I saw that you had our math program, why don't you get our history program as well? And then I'll go, hmm, thank you for your offer. I'll take it under consideration. And then I start doing some research.

Kaitlyn Coombes 23:33

So first you ask the basic questions: the who, what, when, and why. What is this database? Who is it for? The basic details that I introduce, and then I ask questions like, okay, but does anyone actually need this? Is there anyone in our community who fits the need for this database? And does that fit the price? For example, I get a lot of different databases sent to me to be promoted. Then some of them, looking forward immediately, I can tell that it's not for us.

Lara Griffin 24:02

Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 24:03

For example, there was one that was like exclusively Latin opera for a very high price. And you know what? There is someone out there who is so excited that that database is available. But at that price point and at the usage we expect from the community and the value that it offers, it's probably not for us.

Lara Griffin 24:21

Yeah.

Kaitlyn Coombes 24:22

So the other questions I ask besides what content is on the database, is also how usable is this database? I find that what really sets them apart are the ones that were constructed with the user in mind. So they ask questions like, what buttons can people see easily? What organization menus work with the way that people's brain think? Can different kinds of people go up in this database and know how to work it and feel comfortable? That's something that's very important for me because it's a big thing that makes people feel like they can't use the library if they're too exclusive. So I really like ones that are accessible and approachable for people at all levels. That's one of the things that we really look for.

Lara Griffin 25:04

Yeah, that's huge. Just thinking about that, just the intuitiveness, the us ability. Because even just first getting into the database and...

Kaitlyn Coombes 25:16

Right, that even that can be overwhelming the first time that you do it. So there are different ways that you can get to our databases.

Lara Griffin 25:22

Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 25:22

But the best way is through the main website, rockfordpubliclibrary.org. And then you go under research, and then there's a big list called A to Z list of databases. And I find that that's the easiest way. But you can also search by topic or by format, and that's another really good way to look to get to what you're looking for. For example, we have people who know that they're there because they want a website about genealogy. Ancestry and Heritage Quests are very popular for that.

Kaitlyn Coombes 25:48

So a person can just go to research, find the genealogy tag, and then look at the databases under there. I like the A to Z one because it shows the full list of what we have, and yeah, I think it's fun to look at. But definitely clicking on one of those. The key is it is free and accessible for everyone with an active Rockford Public Library card. So sometimes people will have trouble and all they need to do is get their card renewed and they'll be fine. An important thing to remember is because of the licensing agreements we have with the publishing companies, reciprocal cards aren't able to use the electronic databases. And that's not because we want to leave out reciprocal card users, it's because the way that the licensing contracts work is so that when a library buys it, they can only make it accessible to their particular patrons, and that's in the legal contract.

Lara Griffin 26:38

Oh, I always wondered that. So that totally makes sense.

Kaitlyn Coombes 26:41

Yeah, we want to make it as... our perspective is we want to make it as available to people as we can, but of course we have to honor our agreements.

Lara Griffin 26:49

So, with the databases, what are the top five that patrons can use to save money?

Kaitlyn Coombes 26:57

Okay, well, I was gonna say one of the top most used ones is Newsbank.

Lara Griffin 27:03

Okay.

Kaitlyn Coombes 27:03

And I'm gonna promote that one because news is such a big topic these days.

Lara Griffin 27:08

Yes.

Kaitlyn Coombes 27:08

And news subscriptions can cost quite a bit of money, especially if you want to go to multiple different sources. Newsbank, you can get access to newspapers from all over the world. So not only can you get access to ones that are in the Midwest or the coasts, you can also get international newspapers from overseas and you can get them translated into English.

Lara Griffin 27:33

Oh, that's so cool.

Kaitlyn Coombes 27:35

It's a great value. Of course, Canopy and Hoopla are both databases where people can stream. So that's a big money saver, is if you can avoid using streaming services every now and then, that's a good way to save money. I also really promote consumer reports. Consumer reports, a lot of people know about. I use them to help decide what car I was going to buy. I wanted to look through all the specs. It was super helpful on finding the best deal.

Kaitlyn Coombes 28:02

So I definitely recommend for major electronic purchases like that that you check out a site like Consumer Reports. Another one that I really promote is Mango Languages. A lot of people want to learn languages, which is great. Mango Languages is great because it is a free way to get that language practice in. A lot of people like to use it on their mobile phones. They use it primarily through apps, super quick and convenient.

Kaitlyn Coombes 28:24

And of course, the other ones I have to really promote for value are Gale courses and Udemy, because those, again, those courses are ones by experts that you usually have to pay for. But the skills that you can gain by taking those courses and committing to that time, which can be as short as an hour or as much as 40 hours, depending on the course, the benefits that you can get are definitely worth the time cost. And the fact that you can do it without having to spend money is huge.

Lara Griffin 28:51

Yeah, that is such a huge savings. And you can also just like look through them and then decide whether you want to use it or not. And then as far as the... because I've noticed that there are different teachers for the same subject.

Kaitlyn Coombes 29:05

Oh, there are there's multiple different teachers, which I always appreciate because different teachers have different styles, and some of them you click with and some of them you don't. I also appreciate their commitment to having different language translations available. So not only do they have ones which can be subtitled into different languages, they also did their best to get speakers, like native speakers in that language to be able to provide courses as well.

Lara Griffin 29:28

So that's great. Can you say the top five again for saving money?

Kaitlyn Coombes 29:35

Certainly. So Consumer Reports, News bank, I'm gonna group Canopy and Hoopla together.

Lara Griffin 29:41

Yep.

Kaitlyn Coombes 29:41

Mango languages, and then Gale courses and Udemy, and I'm gonna slide in Peterson's Test and Career Prep underneath there.

Lara Griffin 29:48

Yes.

Kaitlyn Coombes 29:48

Because saving on those, again, even those vocational tests and certifications can be big.

Lara Griffin 29:54

That's great. So is there anything that you'd like to share that we didn't hit today?

Kaitlyn Coombes 30:07

I guess the biggest thing is again about patron requests. So we do everything in our power to try to fill as many patron requests as we can because that's our job as the library. As the audiobooks have grown more popular, the costs have risen dramatically as well. While the library has more access to digital materials than ever before in various forms and formats, the demand is not only larger, but it's also the range of what is available is bigger.

Kaitlyn Coombes 30:37

Especially since it's so easy to request and to read the digital materials, people request them more often since they don't have to take a trip to the library each time, which is wonderful and exactly what we want for people to use the convenience of the library. It just means that sometimes we have to be strategic about what we purchase. Some requests might not be able to be filled, and that's why we really encourage people to place suggestions directly through Cloud Library so we can see that demand and get that title to you faster.

Lara Griffin 31:05

That's awesome. I appreciate you coming in today, Katelyn, and your expertise in these subjects and helping us to learn more about the electronic resources that are here in the library. That, you know, I had no idea. Like we always think about the library just for just getting a book, but there's so much more to it. And so thanks for coming in and sharing your wealth of information.

Kaitlyn Coombes 31:32

Well, thank you so much for your interest and for letting me talk about it.

Lara Griffin 31:36

So, hey everybody, just remember go get a library card so that you can get access to these databases, your ebooks and your audiobooks. Download the RPL app. You can also get a link to our podcast from the RPL app, and subscribe to the podcast. We hope you can enjoy the library, come in and visit, and thank you for listening today. [lofi music plays]